Legislature(2001 - 2002)

04/08/2002 02:05 PM Senate JUD

Audio Topic
* first hearing in first committee of referral
+ teleconferenced
= bill was previously heard/scheduled
                                                                                                                                
               SB 357-STATE LAND SALE REQUIREMENTS                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
4:13 p.m.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  said SB 357 was  an act relating to  the disposal                                                              
of State  land and  interest in  State land  and providing  for an                                                              
effective date.  He said the State  of Alaska received 105 million                                                              
acres of  land through the  statehood act.   He said SB  357 would                                                              
require  DNR to  make State  land available  for sale.   The  land                                                              
would be available  in adequate parts and available  for over-the-                                                              
counter sales.   He said SB 357 would also provide  for open entry                                                              
lands, agricultural lands and purchase by installments.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said  SB 357 would provide for  the utilization of                                                              
municipal  zoning surveys  to be paid  for by  the person  who was                                                              
acquiring the property.  He said  DNR would be required to place a                                                              
monument at least every five miles for each parcel.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He noted  the ideas behind  SB 357 had  been around for  some time                                                              
and  had been  discussed  significantly  during  the two  previous                                                              
sessions of the legislature.                                                                                                    
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY  said there had always  been the argument  that if                                                              
the land were  opened up to the  people it would cost  the State a                                                              
lot of  money.  He  said there was  some discussion  earlier about                                                              
waivers.  He asked if waivers were legal.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR said  waivers could be put in the  law so that the                                                              
State wouldn't  be required to provide  school services.   He said                                                              
that would burden the land with that  process.  He said SB 357 was                                                              
fairly comprehensive  in trying to  remove as many of  the State's                                                              
obligations as possible.                                                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
He asked Mr. Dick Mylius to provide testimony.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR.  DICK  MYLIUS,  Resource  Assessment  &  Development  Manager,                                                              
Division of Mining, Land And Water,  DNR, said DNR recognized that                                                              
getting land  into private  ownership was  one of the  fundamental                                                              
responsibilities  of   DNR  as  set  out  in  Article   8  of  the                                                              
Constitution of the State of Alaska.   He said SB 357 would modify                                                              
some of the existing land disposal  statutes and establish two new                                                              
land  disposal programs.   He  said  the first  new program  would                                                              
include  a short-term  offering of  50,000  acres of  subdivisions                                                              
that would  be offered through  three different first-come  first-                                                              
serve disposals during  the first year and a half  of the program.                                                              
The  second  program  would  be a  long-term  open  entry  program                                                              
offering 200,000 acres  per year.  He said that  new program would                                                              
be  a more  aggressive land-offering  program than  the State  had                                                              
ever offered and would require a  significant increase in the land                                                              
sales budget.                                                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
He said  DNR supported  some of the  proposed changes  to existing                                                              
programs.  He said  Sec. 3 of SB 357 would change  existing law so                                                              
that when a person  defaulted on a lottery land-sale  contract the                                                              
parcel  could be  immediately offered  for sale  over-the-counter.                                                              
He said DNR supported  that change.  Sec. 4  would change existing                                                              
law  so that  when a  purchaser in  an  auction failed  to sign  a                                                              
contract  of sale or  defaulted on  a contract  of sale  DNR could                                                              
offer that parcel  for sale over-the-counter.   DNR also supported                                                              
that  change.   He said  DNR also  supported Sec.  5, which  would                                                              
allow DNR  to require  the purchaser  to appraise  and survey  the                                                              
parcel and pay for  those costs.  He said DNR had  been able to do                                                              
this through  existing regulations  but the statute  would clarify                                                              
their authority.                                                                                                                
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said DNR did  not support  Sec. 6, which  would create                                                              
two new land  disposal programs.  He said this  was partly because                                                              
DNR had existing  statutes that provided adequate  and progressive                                                              
programs for  the sale of State  land into private ownership.   He                                                              
said  DNR's  existing  programs  included  the  subdivision  sales                                                              
program, the remote recreational  cabin program and re-offering of                                                              
agricultural tracts.  He said DNR  offered nearly 50,000 acres for                                                              
sale in  FY 02  and FY 03  under the existing  programs.   He said                                                              
DNR's  existing budget  allowed them  to offer  between 2,500  and                                                              
5,000  acres  of  new  land  per  year.   He  said  DNR  was  also                                                              
transferring over  20,000 acres per  year to municipalities,  many                                                              
of which also had land sale programs.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
He said new  land sale programs  were not needed to  increase land                                                              
sales.  DNR suggested that the most  efficient way to increase the                                                              
amount of  State land being offered  would be to  increase funding                                                              
for existing programs.                                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
He said DNR had several concerns  with the new programs.  DNR felt                                                              
the  programs  would  not  be workable  because  they  would  have                                                              
unrealistic deadlines  and contained unmanageable  and potentially                                                              
unconstitutional procedures  for awarding  land.  He said  the new                                                              
programs would fail to provide for the public interest.                                                                         
                                                                                                                                
He said SB 357 contained conflicting  provisions regarding surveys                                                              
in compliance with  municipal platting requirements.   He said the                                                              
provisions that would allow individual  appraisals and surveys for                                                              
parcels  of  land  would  result in  hundreds  of  appraisals  and                                                              
surveys  that would overwhelm  borough platting  boards and  staff                                                              
and  DNR's appraisal  and  survey  staff.   He  said the  existing                                                              
programs allowed DNR to consolidate  the reviews with the boroughs                                                              
internally,  which  was  a  much   more  efficient  way  of  doing                                                              
business.                                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
He said  the proposed AS  38.14.010 would  allow DNR to  sell land                                                              
that  was unclassified  or classified  as forestry,  agricultural,                                                              
settlement  and recreational.   Existing  programs allowed  DNR to                                                              
sell agricultural and  settlement lands.  He said  DNR didn't feel                                                              
that forest  or recreational lands  should be considered  for sale                                                              
because  the public  supported retaining  these types  of land  in                                                              
State ownership.   He said past experience had shown  that sale of                                                              
timber lands would  automatically create a large  number of people                                                              
opposed to timber  harvest in their area.  He  said subsection (c)                                                              
of the  proposed AS  38.14.010 on  page 4 of  SB 357 would  exempt                                                              
land sales  from the provisions  of AS  38.04 and AS  38.05, which                                                              
protected public access,  public resources of the  land and access                                                              
to  subsurface   resources  and  had  requirements   dealing  with                                                              
retaining State ownership of minerals.                                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
MR.  MYLIUS said  the  proposed 38.14.040,  beginning  on page  5,                                                              
would require purchasers  to appear in person in  order to acquire                                                              
a parcel.   He  said this  was similar  to a previous  requirement                                                              
that had been found unconstitutional by the courts.                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
He  said the  budget  and  revenue  projections reflected  in  the                                                              
fiscal note  were very rough  and would need  to be refined  as SB
357  moved  through  the  process  and  into  the  Senate  Finance                                                              
Committee.   He said the cost,  revenues and general  summary were                                                              
those  that were  used in  2000 when  the  existing land  disposal                                                              
programs were being considered in SB 283.                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY asked how much land  DNR had sold to the public in                                                              
the previous eight years.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said there wasn't really  a land disposal program until                                                              
the previous two years.  He said  over the previous two years, DNR                                                              
offered approximately 25,000 acres.   He said DNR was proposing to                                                              
offer another  20,000 acres, which  were mostly parcels  that were                                                              
previously subdivided  and came  back to DNR  or were  never sold.                                                              
He said approximately  2,400 parcels had been  offered that fiscal                                                              
year and 350 of those had been sold.                                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY asked how much defaulted  property had been resold                                                              
to the public.                                                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said it  was difficult  to say  because land  that had                                                              
been defaulted on was lumped in with other types of offerings.                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  THERRIAULT  asked  for   the  location  of  the  language                                                              
requiring personal appearance in order to purchase land.                                                                        
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said that was in the proposed  Sec. 38.14.040 beginning                                                              
on page 5.   The actual language was  in lines 1-3 on page  6.  He                                                              
said that  provision was  very similar  to a previous  requirement                                                              
that intended to give local residents  a preference in land sales.                                                              
He said  some people who  couldn't attend  a land sale  because it                                                              
was held  during the week  filed suit  and it was determined  that                                                              
land had to be sold with equal access to all Alaskans.                                                                          
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY  said that same  subsection said, "The  sale price                                                              
of  the land  shall  be  the fair  market  value  of the  land  as                                                              
determined  by an  appraiser selected  from a  list of  appraisers                                                              
approved  by the department  under  AS 38.14.160."   He asked  who                                                              
those appraisers would be.                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS  said DNR had  a list of  appraisers who  were licensed                                                              
and certified to appraise State lands and wanted to do so.                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR COWDERY asked if the appraisers  looked at property values                                                              
in the vicinity when they did their appraisals.                                                                                 
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said they did.                                                                                                       
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR  asked how  to modify Sec.  38.14.040 to  bring it                                                              
into   compliance  with   the  court's   determination   regarding                                                              
appearing in person in order to purchase land.                                                                                  
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said  he would delete the language  regarding appearing                                                              
in person.                                                                                                                      
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR asked  if he would place a period  after "chapter"                                                              
on page 6, line 1.                                                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
MR. MYLIUS said  he would.  He said there were  several ways to do                                                              
land  sales  without  requiring the  personal  appearance  of  the                                                              
purchaser.   The  first was  to do sealed  bid options.   He  said                                                              
there  were  also lotteries  if  more  than  one person  wanted  a                                                              
parcel.  He said  there was also the option of  an outcry auction,                                                              
in  which people  could have  an agent  present.   He said  outcry                                                              
auctions   were  inefficient   because  each   parcel  needed   an                                                              
individual auction.                                                                                                             
                                                                                                                                
TAPE 02-14, SIDE B                                                                                                            
                                                                                                                              
CHAIRMAN TAYLOR moved Amendment 1  placing a period after the word                                                              
"chapter" on  page 6, line 1  and deleting "who appears  in person                                                              
to  purchase the  land  at the  site or  sites  designated by  the                                                              
department for  the sale of land" in  lines 1 through 3.   He said                                                              
that  would  hopefully   bring  that  into  compliance   with  the                                                              
constitutional concerns raised by Mr. Mylius.                                                                                   
                                                                                                                                
There being no objection, Amendment 1 was adopted.                                                                              
                                                                                                                                
CHAIRMAN  TAYLOR asked  if there  was anybody  else who wished  to                                                              
testify on SB 357.  There was nobody.                                                                                           
                                                                                                                                
SENATOR  COWDERY  moved  CSSB  357(JUD)   out  of  committee  with                                                              
attached fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                            
                                                                                                                                
There being  no objection,  CSSB 357(JUD)  moved out of  committee                                                              
with attached fiscal note and individual recommendations.                                                                       

Document Name Date/Time Subjects